Invoicing After Bad Dates: The New Way Men Harass & Stalk Women

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Maria of Agape Match is one of if not the only matchmaker I would ever refer to people. If she says she’ll scour the earth looking for your ideal match, she’ll do it. And – no – I do not get paid a commission for referring clients to her. I know her personally and have seen the hoops she jumps through to meet the expectations of her clients. That being said, let’s talk about this story she posted to Facebook.

Let’s get one thing straight: the purpose of sending one of these Venmo invoices is not to get the money back. While I believe dolts like this man are stupid to some degree, they can’t be that stupid. These requests are essentially thinly-veiled attempts at extortion, as the person sending it (usually a man) know the woman won’t pay, which in his mind gives him permission to stalk and harass her.  These stories aren’t funny anymore, not after the nightmare experienced by this woman.  To summarize, a man filed a civil case in court to get his $20 back allegedly because the woman was texting during a date. Now, do you really believe that’s the reason? Because I don’t. I think this man-baby got his feelings hurt, so he decided he was going to make her pay, not with money, but with her reputation and safety.  It’s time for news outlets and venues and fucking Venmo (whose brand is quickly becoming associated with this nonsense) to draw a hard line here. Enough. Yeah, sure, you might get some publicity out of it and your brand name might get some exposure, but at what cost?

See, men like this know they can’t beat us up for rejecting them without going to jail (well, sometimes) so they go another more passive aggressive route. They think, “I know, I’ll threaten to publicly shame her. That’ll teach her for turning me down.” It’s an act of revenge, pure and simple. For the folks in the cheap seats, let me remind you that a man seeking revenge never really ends in the woman’s favor.

Now that we’ve covered that, let’s address – AGAIN – that if you just sit there waiting for a man to pay that check, you’re an asshole. I don’t care what your Mom or your girlfriends told you about chivalry. Screw chivalry. You are not entitled to a free anything because you graced someone with your presence. So what if he chose the place? That means nothing. You met on Tinder, for fuck’s sake. The chances of dates borne from a dating app like Tinder or Bumple turning into something substantive are pretty small and we all know it. Stop acting like you’re Kate Middleton.

As for those of us who re-tweet and share stories like this, consider first publicly calling out news organizations and payment platforms like Venmo for enabling this misogynistic bullshit.

Thoughts?

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12 comments

  1. Why does every negative interaction between a man and a woman have to be labeled as misogyny? There definitely seems to be a tendency on this site to do that. News flash, people are dicks! Just because he’s a dick to her, does not make it misogyny. Just like her being a dick to him is not misandry. And she is a bit of a dick. Listen we all know if we want to see someone again, we know usually pretty quick. So if you’re not interested pay your half, not that hard. Even if you’re unsure (which is really a probable not interested) pay your half.

    Most men pay the cheque to signal interest. Trust me, we don’t get enjoyment in reviewing our credit card bills and seeing all the failed Tinder first dates. That’s just a 30 day postmortem.

    There has been a few times I’ve considered sending a bill. Never have, why? Because I’m mature enough to know that it seem petty and I’d rather take the high ground and feel good about acting right. And with age and maturity you come to realize you can’t force decency into people. No ones going to get the bill and go “Oh he’s right I should have just paid my half like a decent person”.

    Also, for the love of all that’s holy can we STOP with playing the safety card on everything. Like men are some evil creatures out to hunt and prey on women. She was sent a $20 bill via app to her email (I’m assuming). If that’s our new definition of stocking, well … not much to say on that other than grow up. And the solution to taking the wind out of his sails on that is to pay the $20. No where to go from there.

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    1. “Why does every negative interaction between a man and a woman have to be labeled as misogyny?”

      That might be a bit extreme. I’d posit that in this case, it likely pertains to the fact that this particular “offense” (i.e. skirting the bill when there’s no intention to pursue the relationship further) is one that’s committed overwhelmingly by women, so when someone gets called on it, subconsciously it hits a nerve with them.

      On the flip side of that, I doubt that this was the first time that this particular guy had encountered the scenario, and he was already bitter about past experiences. That being the case, he should have simply requested that she pay her half up-front rather than baiting a trap the way he did.

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      1. ” I’d posit that in this case, it likely pertains to the fact that this particular “offense” (i.e. skirting the bill when there’s no intention to pursue the relationship further) is one that’s committed overwhelmingly by women, so when someone gets called on it, subconsciously it hits a nerve with them.”

        Did he know she had no intention to pursue the relationship further? If he really thought that why not just ask her to split the bill ? If he didn’t want to see her again, why not ask her to split the bill? If he was ticked she didn’t offer to pay, why not tell her “Your share comes to $” before paying the bill himself?

        His chances of getting the money, or “showing her” would be more effective if had done that. The surprise Venmo billing just makes him look like an asshole with no balls.

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    2. Probably because the way the author is using the term isn’t in its strictest, most legal or dictionary definition. I read it as “an intense, visceral fear or anger at women that manifests in various unpleasant behaviors, specifically around feeling an entitlement to unleash that anger and fear on her in any way he sees fit.” A man who feels a rageful entitlement to a woman–her time, emotional energy, body, sexuality, fertility, what have you, and doesn’t receive the measure he feels he is owed and then lashes out (stalking, taking to court, hitting, raping, catcalling, insulting, online screeds, trolling and “twitter storms”/ threats, doxxing, sexual harassment, revenge pr0n, etc etc) at her or at all women is in fact practicing misogyny. It’s not the dramatic misogyny of, for example, using rape as a weapon of war, or becoming a serial killer because of a warped mother-son relationship. But it is a *form* of misogyny.

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  2. “….as the person sending it (usually a man) knows the woman won’t pay, which in his mind gives him permission to stalk and harass her.”

    —Moxie

    This aligns directly with stalking/Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) research (Orion, Mullen, Meloy, Zona, etc.)

    Once rejected both on the date and through Venmo, the person (yes, very usually, but not always a man) has a “righteous cause” to fixate on, pursue and harass. Could last anywhere from a few weeks to a few decades—depends on the dude.

    Engaging, “telling him off,” or reporting to the media actually feeds the fixation. An ordinary guy would be extremely embarrassed if his name appeared on TV as a “creep harassing a woman.” Not these dudes. They are getting the attention they crave. “Finally,” they think, “I’m getting through to her. I’m getting close to her. See, the news anchor is even mentioning our names!”

    It would have been better for this woman to have simply deleted the Venmo receipt and had all further ones filtered to spam mail. “Blocking” Venmo can also feed the fixation, as, in these dude’s minds, blocking is a type of response. “Aha! I’m getting closer! I’m getting through to her!” is how these dudes think. They think this way whether you’re blocking them on social media or unloading a barrage of curse words—or even slaps— in their face.

    Same goes for “blocking” their phone number (believe me, they’ll just get a new number to call you from). No, instead just let their calls go to voicemail.

    After a time with no response, these kinds of dudes [who are not crazy/psycho, as Moxie astutely notes
    (they usually know how to stay just within the law)] will move on to another target. They just keep on doing this until they break into the wrong target’s house one day, and meet a woman who is armed.

    There is nothing wrong with stomping on a cockroach or putting down a rabid dog.

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    1. LOL …. you really have a whole narrative mapped out here.

      Here’s another scenario:

      He’s pissed because he thinks she treated him poorly. He sends Venno bill as a passive aggressive “fuck you”. Moves on with his life.

      Hmmm .. I wonder which of our two scenarios is more statistically likely?

      Nice how you ended your rant with a call to violence. Hypocrisy at its best.

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      1. Speed isn’t far off with his theory. Read the linked story and do some Googling. The guy didn’t move on with his life at all. He invoiced her, she refused to pay, he filed a claim in court. Then he took things public and put her on blast on social media. She eventually gave in and paid him because he wouldn’t leave her alone. You’re normalizing something that isn’t normal.

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  3. I think you can only venmo someone if you have their email or Facebook account first, why you’d share that with someone before a first date is beyond me

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    1. Jaime; ” think you can only venmo someone if you have their email or Facebook account first, why you’d share that with someone before a first date is beyond me”

      Moxie, you wrote about *surprise” venmo charges on your other blog over a year ago. Stalkers gonna stalk. Might be ‘service-y’ to remind women to be careful about sharing how they can be reached.

      Agree on the invitee paying their own way if they don’t want to see the dude again, but that might not be enough for some *off* fellows.

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    2. It’s pretty easy to find a Tinder match’s facebook (and real name and real job) if you have friends in common.

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  4. “It’s time for news outlets and venues and fucking Venmo (whose brand is quickly becoming associated with this nonsense) to draw a hard line here.”

    Can you explain what you want Venmo to do here? I like the ability to request money via Venmo. This is how my roommates divide up the bills (e.g. my roommate pays the electric and sends me a request). Venmo already allows rejecting the request. Do you want them to add another button labeled “Reject due to misogony”?

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